Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

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Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Poll ended at Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:52 pm

Yes

7
41%

No

10
59%
 
Total votes: 17

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Marcus101RR
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Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Marcus101RR »

Multiplayer and Single Player Games
Do NOT post any tables, trainers, or code for PvP (player vs player) multiplayer games. And any complaints of griefing/griefers with use of tables will result in them being removed and warnings/bans issued to the poster(s). Lets share something we enjoy and not ruin something others enjoy.

Revised

Single & Multiplayer Cheats
Do NOT post any tables, trainers, or code for Online Multiplayer games. And any complaints of griefing/griefers with use of tables will result in them being removed and warnings/bans issued to the poster(s). Lets share something we enjoy and not have an advantage over something others enjoy.

  • Any game that requires Online Service, thereof, must be connected to start, and play.

  • Any game that is an MMO that requires a login to authenticate service.

  • Any game that has Player vs Player competition and/or leaderboards.

  • Any game that stores Server-Sided Inventory or Data that isn't present on your personal cloud service (Steam, Epic).

Do NOT create or solely use Cheat Tables on Single Player games that can be played online to have an advantage over others.

To Elaborate,

Single Player games may contain online portions like the following:

  • Call of Duty Series

  • Monster Hunter Series

  • Borderlands Series

These are example of games that are an exception as "Single Player" is the trump card, if the game contains Single Player and follows these boundaries, it is allowed:

  • Can Single Player be launched Offline with/without internet connection.

The result is, if the game contains anything else such as Login Authentication, Online Service, Requires Internet you cannot play the game offline nor Single Player as it requires you to connect to either Server Environment or Service. However, should the game let you progress to Single Player without this and inform you that you are not online or connected, it is allowed.

Examples of Allowed/Not Allowed:

  • EAC (Anti Cheat) -> Has Multiplayer -> Has Single Player (Offline) = Allowed

  • EAC (Anti Cheat) -> Has Multiplayer -> Has Single Player (Online) = Not Allowed (Requires Active Internet Connection)

  • Has Multiplayer -> Requires Login Service = Not Allowed


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Seneekikaant »

We should probably add to that, if the game stores your single player data on the dev's server then that's a definite no. We don't want angry devs coming to us and making us not able to host cheat tables

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Marcus101RR
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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Marcus101RR »

The following bullet was added, revised, and improved on in order to ensure no misunderstanding with what online cheating is.

Single & Multiplayer Cheats

  • Any game that stores Server-Sided Inventory or Data that isn't present on your personal cloud service (Steam, Epic).


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by RaxeIe »

What about Idle Champions? The devs there don't care if we cheat as long as we aren't screwing/lagging the servers.


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Marcus101RR
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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Marcus101RR »

RaxeIe wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:12 pm

What about Idle Champions? The devs there don't care if we cheat as long as we aren't screwing/lagging the servers.

Developers are not the same as the publishers and owners of the servers, unless it can be proven those servers are part of the developers. Thing is its a violation of the law to manipulate server sided information on the fly, aka sniffing packets. It could hurt our reputation as much as the author of those cheats.

It is to protect everyone.

Remember, code can be used maliciously, by anyone, we can't control their actions, but we can control the distribution and the fallback. A mistake we don't want to end up doing unlike FRF.


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by mece »

Marcus101RR wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:24 pm

The following bullet was added, revised, and improved on in order to ensure no misunderstanding with what online cheating is.

Single & Multiplayer Cheats

  • Any game that stores Server-Sided Inventory or Data that isn't present on your personal cloud service (Steam, Epic).

The Astroneer falls under the definition.


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Junior5a »

I don't think it is good idea.


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by ParasiteDelta »

While I understand the reasoning behind this, I think that both A) there should be a way to submit a game to a queue evaluation system to be reviewed on the mods' time, and B) the rules should be made a bit more specific. There are multiple instances where a game has EAC and yet has no PvP or even multiplayer, such as a lot of Ubisoft titles both online and offline, or what about games which stream diagnostic data/telemetry and demand an online server connection as a result? Does the integrated data mining systems present in current Unity and UE builds fall under the server-side section?

In broad strokes, it works, but the ruleset absolutely needs a bit more refinement and hashing out. Even as a technical discussion, talking strictly about specific systems for net-looped games is fairly educational, especially in a world where more and more companies attempt to force people online even in entertainment media for no other reason than control and harvesting.

Oh, and FLR (FRF) screwed themselves by trying to be greedy, stooping to seizing and stealing work from people for profit. Let's not mince words here, it wasn't just the open discussion that led to their downfall. They're in the same category as WeMod, where it's just greed and attempted monopolization.


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Marcus101RR
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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Marcus101RR »

ParasiteDelta wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:40 pm

While I understand the reasoning behind this, I think that both A) there should be a way to submit a game to a queue evaluation system to be reviewed on the mods' time, and B) the rules should be made a bit more specific. There are multiple instances where a game has EAC and yet has no PvP or even multiplayer, such as a lot of Ubisoft titles both online and offline, or what about games which stream diagnostic data/telemetry and demand an online server connection as a result? Does the integrated data mining systems present in current Unity and UE builds fall under the server-side section?

In broad strokes, it works, but the ruleset absolutely needs a bit more refinement and hashing out. Even as a technical discussion, talking strictly about specific systems for net-looped games is fairly educational, especially in a world where more and more companies attempt to force people online even in entertainment media for no other reason than control and harvesting.

Oh, and FLR (FRF) screwed themselves by trying to be greedy, stooping to seizing and stealing work from people for profit. Let's not mince words here, it wasn't just the open discussion that led to their downfall. They're in the same category as WeMod, where it's just greed and attempted monopolization.

I don't think I have seen a Ubisoft title that uses EAC. Elden Ring uses EAC, and we allow it, because it can be played offline. But games like League or Overwatch are a no no.


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Re: Revamp: Should we allow purely online cheating games?

Post by Hallowedsoul08 »

What about private servers that you host yourself? normally if it's easy to understand, you could easily make cheats for your own private server, but that's if it's easy. I'm currently am playing a City of Heroes Private Server of my own, but it's not easy to edit and do changes on it to make my own.


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